Podcast

What Do Managers of Managers Do? (The Crank Call From Kim) 4 | 16

Does anyone actually want to be a manager of managers? And if so, what do these people actually do? On this episode of the Radical Candor podcast Kim, Jason and Amy discuss strategies for being an effective manager of managers. If you're managing people who manage other people, then you're managing managers. Whereas if you're managing individual contributors, you're managing a team. The most significant difference when you become a manager of managers is that now you have to become a thought partner, not just on the functional expertise and the business your direct reports are running or the product that they're building, but you also have to be a thought partner to them on how they're managing their team.

Listen to the episode:

 

Radical Candor Podcast Episode At a Glance

Radical Candor Podcast

When you are a manager of managers, it’s your job to make sure not only that the authority you have doesn’t go to your head, but that authority doesn’t go to the heads of the people who work for you. In other words, you want to make sure that nobody on your team, including you, has unilateral decision-making power over who gets hired, who gets promoted, and who gets fired. You want to make these decisions as a team. 

As you switch from direct management of individual contributors to managing managers, you’re going to face new challenges. When you become a manager, you can’t be in the details of every decision; when you become a manager of managers you don’t even know all the decisions that are being made. 

When you become a manager you can’t solve every problem, when you become a manager of managers you may not even know about the problems that are getting solved and you have to let go of control.

You can’t have a personal relationship with every person your direct reports manage — and at some point, you won’t even be able to know everyone’s name. And, people may start to see you differently — perhaps as the big intimidating boss they have to perform for versus the nice person they used to say hi to in the coffee line. 

Listen to the full episode to hear the team share their experiences of navigating these changing dynamics, including how Kim used to "crank call" members of her team.

Radical Candor Podcast Checklist

1. For managers of managers, here are the conditions that you need to create so those good relationships can happen on your team. You need to make explicit to the people you're managing, that management is part of their job. You need to make sure that none of your managers have unilateral decision-making power over who gets promoted, who gets hired, and who gets fired.
 2. As a manager of managers, you want to create a culture of guidance. In fact, all managers do, but specifically, as a manager, managers, remember, it's not enough to just solicit feedback. You also have to make yourself open to public criticism. You also want to design systems that are going to enable people to speak truth to power. If you want more information on how to set those up, check out season 4, episode 14.
3. Managers of managers need to build effective teams. That starts with hiring the right people and making sure that when you're hiring people, it is clear to them what management skills are going to be required. And don't forget to not only put that in the job description but to make that part of the interview process as well as the reference check process. The best tip that we can give you is to call people who have reported to that person in the past and find out what they really think of them as a manager.
4. As a manager of managers, you need to make sure that everybody's on the same page about what the goals are. And the best way to do that is with what we call a bottoms-up OKR process or a bottoms-up goal-setting process.
5. Remember, you are not the Hotel California of management — people can (and will) leave if you're not managing effectively.

 

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FAQs

What is the most important difference between managing individual contributors and managing managers?

When you manage individual contributors, you focus on functional expertise, work output, and team dynamics directly. When you become a manager of managers, you must also become a thought partner on how your direct reports manage their own teams. You're no longer just guiding the work — you're guiding the people who guide other people, which means letting go of detailed control and trusting a layer of leadership between you and the frontline.

How should managers of managers handle hiring, firing, and promotion decisions?

Managers of managers must ensure that no single person — including themselves — has unilateral decision-making power over who gets hired, promoted, or fired. These decisions should be made as a team. This helps prevent authority from going to anyone's head and keeps the process fair and transparent. Building that check into your team culture protects both the people on your team and the integrity of your organization.

How do you build a culture of feedback as a manager of managers?

It's not enough to simply ask for feedback — you have to make yourself open to public criticism and actively design systems that help people speak truth to power. As a manager of managers, you're setting the tone for every layer beneath you. If people see you accepting candid feedback gracefully and transparently, it signals that honest communication is safe throughout the organization. Structural tools like speak-truth-to-power meetings can help make this a reliable practice rather than a one-off gesture.

What is a bottoms-up OKR process and why does it matter for managers of managers?

A bottoms-up OKR (Objectives and Key Results) process is a goal-setting approach where team members help define the goals rather than having them handed down from the top. For managers of managers, this is critical because you can't be close to every decision being made. When people at every level participate in setting goals, everyone is more aligned, more invested, and clearer on priorities — reducing the need for constant top-down oversight.

How should hiring practices change when you're building a team of managers?

When hiring managers, make management skills an explicit part of the process from the start — include them in the job description, the interview questions, and especially the reference checks. The best tip from the Radical Candor team: call people who have previously reported to the candidate and ask what they really think of them as a manager. Past direct reports give you the most honest, ground-level view of someone's management abilities that you simply can't get from a standard interview.

What are the biggest challenges you face when you first become a manager of managers?

Several challenges emerge when you make this transition: you won't know every decision being made, you won't know every problem being solved, and you may not even know everyone's name. You also have to accept that people may start to see you differently — as an intimidating authority figure rather than a peer. The key is letting go of control, trusting the managers beneath you, and focusing your energy on coaching them rather than doing the work yourself.

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