Podcast

How to Make Work Less Like Junior High (A Tale of 2 Jasons) 5 | 10

Name: How to Make Work Less Like Junior High (A Tale of 2 Jasons) 5 | 10
Uploaded: 2023-05-17T07:01:33Z
Description: How to Make Work Less Like Junior High (A Tale of 2 Jasons) 5 | 10

Brandi Neal · May 17, 2023

On this episode of the Radical Candor Podcast, Kim, Amy and Jason discuss how to make work less like junior high by implementing something Fred Kofman — Kim’s coach at Google — calls clean escalation. Clean escalation dictates managers not allow people to talk about one another to them behind each other’s backs and not engage in office gossip.

Listen to the episode:

Radical Candor Podcast Episode At a Glance

When someone tells you about something great a colleague did, urge them to also share that feedback directly with the colleague who did the great work.

This will develop stronger relationships between peers, allow for more praise to be shared (again, you don’t want to be a feedback bottleneck), and provide more perspectives on what’s going well and why.

When there are issues, insist that people communicate them directly. Remind them that Radically Candid criticism is kind and clear. It’s kinder for them to tell their colleague about the issue that needs to be fixed than to report that issue to the boss.

They’ll also be able to be more clear because they have details and context of the issue you lack.

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The flip side of this is that if people come to you criticizing a colleague, don’t give them a chance to bring you into a triangle of complaining, name-calling, or backstabbing.

Talking with the person on each side of an issue individually may seem like being a good listener, but it usually means you’ll get one-sided, biased and incomplete stories plus hurt feelings.

You are not being empathetic, you’re just stirring the pot!

Remember, the opposite of clean escalation is Manipulative Insincerity — talking about people instead of talking to them.

When you triangulate, you end up creating politics. Each side becomes suspicious that you’re talking behind their back (which you are).

The two begin to distrust each other and a toxic relationship develops. You can avoid this by simply asking them to talk to each other directly.

If they still can’t resolve the issue, and you’re the manager, set up a three-way conversation. This builds trust between the two parties and shows them how sharing criticism directly leads to a better outcome for everyone.

Radical Candor Podcast Checklist

Radical Candor Podcast Clean Escalation

Don’t engage in office gossip. When you triangulate, you end up creating politics. Each side becomes suspicious that you’re talking behind their back (which you are). Encourage people to talk directly and if they still can’t resolve the issue and you’re the manager, set up a three-way conversation.
You are not a diplomat; you’re more like a marriage counselor. Talking with the person on each side of an issue individually may seem like being a good listener, but it usually means you’ll get one-sided, biased and incomplete stories plus hurt feelings. Talk to both people at the same time.
If there is a power imbalance, you can ask for help. Ask your manager to speak to the other person with you to have your back during the conversation with that other person. But don't ask them to speak for you. Because when we do that, we wind up in dirty escalation land which leads to hurt feelings and often unresolved issues.

Radical Candor Podcast Clean Escalation Resources

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Episodes are written and produced by Brandi Neal with script editing by Amy Sandler. The show features Radical Candor co-founders Kim Scott and Jason Rosoff and is hosted by Amy Sandler. Nick Carissimi is our audio engineer.

The Radical Candor Podcast theme music was composed by Cliff Goldmacher. Order his book: The Reason For The Rhymes: Mastering the Seven Essential Skills of Innovation by Learning to Write Songs.

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FAQs

What is clean escalation and why does it matter at work?

Clean escalation, a concept introduced by executive coach Fred Kofman, means managers should not allow people to talk about colleagues behind their backs or engage in office gossip. Instead of acting as a go-between, managers encourage people to address issues directly with one another. This prevents the formation of workplace politics, reduces mistrust, and builds stronger peer relationships — essentially keeping work from feeling like junior high.

What is the opposite of clean escalation?

The opposite of clean escalation is Manipulative Insincerity — talking about people instead of talking to them. When a manager triangulates by hearing one side of a story privately, each party becomes suspicious that the manager is talking behind their back (which they are). This erodes trust between colleagues and can create a toxic working relationship that becomes very difficult to repair.

What should I do if two people on my team can't resolve a conflict on their own?

If direct communication between two colleagues hasn't resolved the issue, set up a three-way conversation with both of them present at the same time. Think of yourself less as a diplomat and more like a marriage counselor. Talking to each person separately gives you one-sided, biased, and incomplete stories. A joint conversation builds trust between the two parties and demonstrates that sharing criticism directly leads to better outcomes for everyone.

How should I handle it when someone shares positive feedback about a colleague?

When someone tells you something great a colleague did, encourage them to share that praise directly with the colleague as well. This strengthens peer relationships, spreads more recognition throughout the team, and keeps you from becoming a feedback bottleneck. Praise has more impact and meaning when it comes directly from the person who witnessed the great work, rather than being filtered through a manager.

What if there's a power imbalance making it hard to speak up directly?

If a power imbalance makes a direct conversation feel unsafe or difficult, it's okay to ask your manager for support — but ask them to have your back during the conversation, not to speak for you. When someone else speaks for you, you risk entering what the post calls 'dirty escalation land,' which typically leads to hurt feelings and unresolved issues rather than a constructive resolution.

Why is triangulating — talking to each person separately — a problem for managers?

Triangulating feels like good listening, but it almost always produces one-sided and incomplete information. Worse, it signals to both parties that you're talking about them behind their backs, which breeds mutual suspicion and distrust. The Radical Candor framework cautions that triangulating isn't empathy — it's stirring the pot. A joint conversation where both people are present is almost always more effective and fairer to everyone involved.

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