Radical Candor Q&A: Kim Answers Our Most Frequently Asked Questions 6 | 27

Episode at a Glance: The Q&A About the FAQs

Radical Candor Podcast Checklist  

1. Question number one, what do you suggest I do? Someone is using Radical Candor as an excuse to act like a jerk. Tell them that they are using obnoxious aggression, not Radical Candor. Radical Candor is all about caring personally and challenging directly, and you’re not feeling a lot of care personally.
2. Question number two, is Radical Candor, harder in a remote or hybrid work environment? Sometimes harder, sometimes easier. Just make sure you’re using your telephone.
3. Question number three. How does Radical Candor work in a multi generational workplace? It works great as long as the crotchety old people are open to feedback from the younger generation.
4. And the age old burning question, how can I be radically candid with my boss? Follow the order of operations. Solicit feedback first, then give praise, then give criticism, and then gauge how it’s landing.

The TLDR Radical Candor Podcast Transcript

[00:00:08] Amy Sandler: I’m Amy Sandler. Jason Rosoff is out today. So today, Kim and I are going to play a little bit of a quiz game. Who wants to be a Radical Candoneer? No? 

[00:00:21] Kim Scott: Okay. 

[00:00:22] Amy Sandler: I’m sure there’s something better. The switch is that Kim, you actually know all the answers. So these are questions that we frequently get asked about Radical Candor. Often in keynotes, but just, you know, walking on the street, somebody might come up to us and ask one of these questions. 

[00:00:42] But before we get into it, before we do our quiz show, let’s, uh, hear from our, uh, frequent sponsors, which is you. And if you are someone who likes the Radical Candor podcast, please do like, rate, review, and subscribe wherever you’re listening to this podcast. It really does make a difference. 

[00:01:03] All right, we did that. It’s out of the way. Kim, are you ready for this quiz show? 

[00:01:09] Kim Scott: I am ready, but I want to say I don’t have all the answers, unfortunately.

[00:01:13] Amy Sandler: Kim! 

[00:01:14] Kim Scott: I wish I did, but you know, you are going to tell me what you think and sometimes, you know, I wouldn’t have gotten it quite right. Like in the book, I said the, your go to question ought to be, is there anything I can do or stop doing that would make it easier to work with me? And a reader read that and said, you should ask, what could I do? So I’m going to say something that’s wrong. And Amy may or may not catch it. So if you are listening to this and I say something, and I could have said something differently or better, if I’m just flat out wrong, write us and let us know. 

[00:01:51] Amy Sandler: We would love to hear from you. And that is podcast@radicalcandor.com. 

[00:01:58] And I will say, Kim, even doing these train the trainers, I’ve been doing a lot lately where I am training folks at their own companies how to teach Radical Candor, I will often get some very tricky questions. Because these folks are thinking about how do I actually teach this and explain it. And one of the things that’s really come up is that, you know, you are telling your stories when other people are telling their stories, Radical Candor is going to look and feel different for them. And I think that’s one of the reasons people love Radical Candor because it’s not a one size fits all. But very often with these questions, people just want to know what is the right answer. So I guess that is the first caveat, there is no perfect answer.

[00:02:39] And with that drumroll please. Question one. What do you suggest I do if someone is using Radical Candor as an excuse to act like a jerk? 

[00:02:51] Kim Scott: First of all, if this is happening to you, I’m really sorry. I’ve, I know that this happens with some frequency because people have written to me and said it is happening. Uh, and you know, maybe I should have called the book Compassionate Candor and not Radical Candor. And then perhaps that would happen less often. However, I don’t think Compassionate Candor would have sold as many books as Radical Candor. So anyway, uh, if someone does this, if someone charges into a conference room and they’re acting, they say, in the spirit of Radical Candor, and then they act like a garden variety jerk, one thing you can do is you could say, if you feel like the relationship will tolerate this, that is not the spirit of Radical Candor. That is the spirit of obnoxious aggression. Um, uh, if that seems funny and if you think that person would think that is funny. I mean, that’s like a lighthearted way to respond. Not all situations, however, are lighthearted. 

[00:03:55] Amy Sandler: Mm-hmm. 

[00:03:55] Kim Scott: Uh, sometimes when I was writing Radical Candor, my editor, and I was slipping into obnoxious aggression, which I sometimes do, my editor would write in the margins, Hello! Care personally? Question mark, question mark, question mark. 

[00:04:15] And so, sometimes, you know, if I act like a jerk, uh, just tell me, like, care personally much, uh, and then I will realize what I’m doing. Uh, you may want to pull that person aside and tell them later. Like, I know your intention was to help, but you actually made the situation worse with your behavior, because uh, I, you know, I felt like you were being a jerk, or so and so interpreted your behavior or what you said as being a jerk, and that doesn’t help you and it doesn’t help the group move forward.

[00:04:51] If you feel like, and those responses all kind of assume good intent. They assume that the person is not intending to act like a jerk, but somehow they wind up acting like a jerk. Now there are times where you’ll respond to the person having assumed good intent, and you will learn that there’s not good intent.

[00:05:13] That happened. I wish I could say it doesn’t happen, but where the person is intentionally trying to act like a jerk. Because they think it makes them, you know, feel better about themselves or whatever. Um, and there, I think you’ve got to decide, is it worth your while? You got to make a conscious decision.

[00:05:32] Is it worth your while to continue working with this person, explaining to this person what the problem is, or not. Like if you are, if someone is acting in this, now we’re veering in a Radical Respect territory. 

[00:05:48] Amy Sandler: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:48] Kim Scott: But if someone is bullying you, you get to choose whether or not you want to respond. Um, if you decide to respond, I recommend a you statement, you know. When you talk or a you question or, you know, when you talk to the team in the way you just talked, everybody goes into fight or flight mode. And then they literally physically can’t hear what you’re saying, so you’re wasting your breath.

[00:06:12] You know, you’re sort of, uh, explaining to them what the problem is with their behavior. But you may decide that it’s too risky, too dangerous for you to, uh, to keep talking, keep giving this person feedback. Uh, because you’re going to get fired or something. And so if that’s the case, I recommend documenting what’s happening, talking to other people, building solidarity, locating the exit nearest you. Often we feel more trapped than we in fact are. And if you know what your best alternative to a negotiated agreement is, what your BATNA is, then you can go in and talk to this person again in a stronger way, uh, knowing that if worse comes to worse and they fire you, you can get another job. 

[00:07:04] Amy Sandler: I think even the way you answered that is really interesting, right? ‘Cause there’s almost like a hierarchy. So first of all, like, does this person know what Radical Candor is? And so there’s an assumption sometimes I think people will use the phrase ’cause, oh, it’s radical, it’s candor. Um, and you’re saying, no, that’s the spirit of obnoxious aggression. Also assume good intent.

[00:07:25] Kim, you were talking about in a group setting versus a one on one setting. So often we’ll talk about, well, it may have landed as Radical Candor for me, but it might not have landed for the other person. So how would you think about that conversation if you feel like, well, it was actually fine for me, I was just concerned how that might’ve landed for this or that other person in the meeting? 

[00:07:50] Kim Scott: Uh, I don’t think, I would say, I think it was fine, but I think they thought you were a jerk. Uh, what I would say is, you know, I know you well enough to know that you had good intentions. But what I observed is that, you know, when you said this thing in that way to that person, that they just quit listening. 

[00:08:15] Amy Sandler: So you’re really going off of your observation. 

[00:08:17] Kim Scott: Yeah. Because the point here is that there’s no objective measure of what being a jerk is. What being a jerk is, is did it hurt the other person or did it not hurt the other person? And uh, and so me saying, I don’t think you’re a jerk, but they think you are. It doesn’t matter, like what matters is impact. 

[00:08:37] Amy Sandler: Yep. And you also said something that I thought was very helpful, which is like, I know your intentions, but these other people may not. Maybe you have a stronger relationship. Um, one last thing I’ll say, then I’ll move on to a couple of questions that I think are tricky and related. Uh, we got some really interesting conversation. One of the slides we use in the workshop is, that we talk about, uh, willing to tick someone off or willing to piss someone off. And what they were saying was that people sometimes interpret that as trying to piss people off. 

[00:09:13] Kim Scott: Yeah. 

[00:09:13] Amy Sandler: So can you just frame the difference between willing versus trying to piss people off?

[00:09:18] Kim Scott: So, I think one of the reasons that we often fail to challenge directly is that we’re so afraid of not hurting someone’s feelings, or we’re so afraid of hurting someone’s feelings, we so want not to hurt their feelings, or not to offend them that we don’t say the thing. 

[00:09:36] And I think we need to be willing to take a risk in order to communicate well. That they might get like real, but this is about being humble. We don’t, I don’t know how you’re going to respond to what I say, uh, but if I’m so afraid that you might get upset or you might get angry, but I never say anything to you, then I’m not going to build a good relationship with you. 

[00:09:58] So you’ve got to be willing to take some risks in order to get to know someone. But if you’re actively trying to piss them off, then you’re acting like a jerk. I mean, another thing that happens here, and I think, uh, in Charles Duhigg’s book, Super Communicators, he often conflates Radical Candor and brutal honesty. And I would say brutal honesty is really obnoxious aggression. It’s not Radical Candor. So it’s anytime somebody talks about brutal honesty, like, Radical Candor should never seem brutal, you know? 

[00:10:34] Amy Sandler: Yeah. And I think that goes back to the, it’s compassionate candor. 

[00:10:38] Kim Scott: Yeah. 

[00:10:38] Amy Sandler: What makes it radical is that it’s rare. So if you ever see that phrase, brutal honesty, you know, you’re missing the compassion, the care personally.

[00:10:47] Kim Scott: Yes. 

[00:10:47] Amy Sandler: All right, Kim. And this one you might be answering a little differently in 2024 than you would have in 2022 and 2018, etcetera. Is Radical Candor harder in a remote or hybrid work environment? 

[00:11:01] Kim Scott: Radical Candor seems easier when you know someone well, and it’s usually easier to get to know someone well when you’re in person. Uh, however, I would say that it can work just as well in a remote or a hybrid work environment as it does in an in person environment. And the, many of the things that I said in Radical Candor, which when I wrote it, I was assuming a more in person environment. And yet when I think about it, when I was coming up with this philosophy, I was managing people in twenty different countries.

[00:11:45] And so we were not all in person. We were in twenty different countries. And so a lot of the ideas I developed working in a hybrid work environment. So here’s what I would say. If you want to give, have that impromptu two minute conversation, it seems like it would be easier if you’re in person because you can just walk up to the person after the meeting and say, will you walk back to my office with me?

[00:12:14] And then you can have the conversation. The ad hoc thing feels easier, but I will say that I found when I was working in person with a big team, that it didn’t, it wasn’t actually easier because if I walked up to the person and said, walk back to my office with me. And everybody heard me say that then they were like, ooh, they’re in trouble.

[00:12:38] And so what I took to doing is texting them towards the end of the meeting, come get me and walk back to my, you know, I’ll walk you to your next meeting or you can walk with me. And, uh, and so the same thing works in a hybrid work environment or a remote work environment. If you notice something going wrong during the meeting and you want to have that two minute impromptu Radical Candor conversation, wait till towards the end of the meeting and then text the person and say, can we chat right after this meeting? Or I’ll call you right after this meeting. 

[00:13:14] Amy Sandler: And 

[00:13:14] Kim Scott: then when the meeting is over, call them right away. 

[00:13:16] Amy Sandler: I’ve gotten a few of those texts. 

[00:13:18] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve gotten them too, we all do it for each other. And that I think is, and then having the phone, it seems like it might be easier to walk with someone. But there’s increasingly evidence that a phone call might be better than an in person conversation. Uh, or then, uh, video conversation. 

[00:13:44] The reason being, and Amy, you and I have talked about this, uh, a fair amount, is that we often misinterpret each other’s facial expressions and body language. And so there have been several times where I’ve said in a meeting publicly, oh, Amy, you seem X, Y, Z. And you’ve had to tell me a couple of times, Kim, you keep saying that. And it’s, that’s not how I’m feeling. So just having a phone call with someone, you can avoid the fact that there may be more noise than signal and facial expressions and body language. So you’re just listening to the words that they’re saying. Uh, I think also in a remote or hybrid work environment, you can have these sort of check in conversations at the beginning of, uh, at the beginning of meetings, you know, connect before content.

[00:14:33] I recommend doing that in person as well, but there, but it’s, I think in a remote or a hybrid work environment, it’s more important to be very conscious of making sure you’re creating space and time for those sort of chit chat moments. Because that’s what we kind of lose in a remote or hybrid work environment. 

[00:14:54] Amy Sandler: Yeah.

[00:14:54] Kim Scott: Also, I want to say I’m talking about remote and hybrid as though they’re the same thing. All remote is way easier than hybrid. Uh, if it’s hybrid, you, there’s this bias that we have to favor the people in the room with us. So you need to be very conscious of managing against that.

[00:15:21] Amy Sandler: One of the ways I like to think about that too, is have I been intentional about, like you said, connect before content? And I have found, you know, interestingly, like we have always been a remote organization, uh, and I miss the sort of shorthand that can come when you’re just strolling by someone.

[00:15:42] So I am aware I probably let more things go in a virtual environment than if we were in an office where I could just poke my head in and it wouldn’t seem like a big deal. I don’t know, Kim, what you think about that. There’s something about, um, is this really, you know, when you think about Radical Candor’s, not about nitpicking, leave three or four unimportant things unsaid. I find that actually sometimes it forces me to really think through, like, is this something that is helpful for that other person? Whereas if I was in person, I might just, it seems almost easier to just talk to them about it. Do you have any thoughts on that? 

[00:16:16] Kim Scott: Well, as you were talking, I was like, huh, is that a feature or a bug of the remote work environment? 

[00:16:22] Amy Sandler: Yeah, I’m not sure. 

[00:16:23] Kim Scott: I think that it, we probably default to not texting the person and then picking up the phone and calling in a hybrid work environment more than we do, uh, in person. But I’m not sure about that. Sometimes when we’re in person, uh, we’re so focused on keeping things pleasant, uh, on harmony, that we, uh, wind up in a false harmony situation instead of real harmony. 

[00:16:59] Amy Sandler: Mm-hm. 

[00:16:59] Kim Scott: So I don’t know. It’s interesting. I need to think more about it, I suspect it’s different for different people. Uh, I don’t, there’s probably, 

[00:17:07] Amy Sandler: Yeah.

[00:17:07] Kim Scott: You know, we could probably come up with data and it would be, we’d find out what’s true on average. But of course what’s true on average doesn’t matter because none of us are average. So. 

[00:17:17] Amy Sandler: Yeah. I do think it’s easier to kind of pretend it’s not happening virtually and we’ll sort of think that the opportunity will present itself. Um, and I find that if I do have something to bring up, there can be that challenge. And we’ll, I’ll talk about this story quite a bit with Jason checking in with me, uh, by Slack because we weren’t having a one on one that week. And he said, hey, I want to check in with you on this project, I have some thoughts. And I have shared, you know, that there was like the murder mystery, 

[00:17:49] Kim Scott: Yeah

[00:17:49] Amy Sandler: Soundtrack that went along with the, I have some thoughts. And then we had the conversation and it was great and, you know, it was so helpful. And he’s like, have you thought about this and that? And it was super helpful and then I said, Jason, like never again, I have some thoughts. 

[00:18:04] Kim Scott: Yeah.

[00:18:04] Amy Sandler: And then he laughed and he was like, well, how would you have wanted me to set it up? He’s like, hey, um, I’d love to hear how you, how it’s going on this project or, you know, when could we find some time, etcetera. So I think what I will say is that often in a virtual environment, I assume in a hybrid environment, there has to be some intentionality of how do you actually plan for the check in if it’s not currently on your schedule.

[00:18:27] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s why I said, wait towards the end of the meeting to say, can we chat right after this meeting? Whereas like, let’s say it’s an hour long meeting and at meeting, at minute ten, I do something that Amy, you have a problem with. If you send me this text at minute eleven, now I have to go through fifty minutes, like wondering what did I do wrong? What’s Amy going to tell me? 

[00:18:51] Amy Sandler: Mm-hm.

[00:18:52] Kim Scott: Whereas if you wait till a minute before the meeting’s over and say, I’m going to call you right after this, then you don’t knock me off my game for the whole rest of the meeting. 

[00:19:00] Amy Sandler: So Kim, that’s really interesting because I know that’s been the general guidance of like in a one on one to wait towards the end to ask your direct report feedback.

[00:19:10] Kim Scott: So that’s a different, yes, yes, that’s the guidance. But that’s a different point. So if you’re going to give me feedback, uh, you’re going to give me critical feedback. 

[00:19:21] Amy Sandler: Yeah. 

[00:19:22] Kim Scott: The reason why I recommend waiting to send me that text to the end of the meeting is so that I’m not worrying the whole meeting. 

[00:19:30] Amy Sandler: Gotcha

[00:19:30] Kim Scott: What I did wrong. 

[00:19:31] Amy Sandler: What did I do wrong? 

[00:19:32] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:33] Amy Sandler: Not paying attention to anything you’re saying. 

[00:19:35] Kim Scott: Yeah. Whereas if we’re talking about now soliciting feedback, the reason I say wait until the end of the meeting is you want to make sure that your direct report knows that they set the agenda of the meeting and that the most important stuff you’re going to talk about is what’s on their mind.

[00:19:52] Amy Sandler: That is really interesting because recently I was reviewing the go to question content and the kind of wait at the end of the meeting. And someone shared that they don’t like to wait until the end of the meeting because for them it feels like then it’s an afterthought and they’re just kind of letting that person have, oh, I’ve just got a minute or two. Anything on your mind? It’s like, oh no, no, no. It is sort of, I can think about Kim, the story where you’re like walking into the elevator, oh, your team hates you. And then the elevator door closes. 

[00:20:21] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:20:22] Amy Sandler: So I’m curious, like how do you balance that? Like this meeting is all about you with the feeling that maybe if it’s at the end, we can’t fully flesh out, especially if we’ve got a lot of feedback that we can’t do that in a couple minutes at the end. 

[00:20:36] Kim Scott: I think what you do is if you realize that this topic is a big topic, you schedule a whole other meeting to talk about it in more detail.

[00:20:43] Amy Sandler: Gotcha. Sounds good. And that’s a really important point, which is that, this is about relationship building. This is not about one and done ongoing conversations. 

[00:20:51] Kim Scott: Yes. 

[00:20:51] Amy Sandler: So we talked about remote. I have been hearing a lot of versions on this question. How does Radical Candor work in a multi generational workplace?

[00:21:02] Kim Scott: I believe that it is the job of the younger generation to criticize the older generation. To tell us all the different ways in which we have messed up. And I also believe that the older generation, throughout all of humanity, has tended to be resistant to hearing that feedback. Has tended to get, uh, to get defensive and to say, you know, what the hell do you know? I had to walk two miles uphill to and from work, you know? Uh, and so I think that, 

[00:21:38] Amy Sandler: In high heels and stockings. 

[00:21:40] Kim Scott: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which we did, didn’t we? Uh, and so I think that it’s really important to remember if you are, if you sort of have more authority or more power in the workplace because you’ve been there longer, uh, it is really your first and foremost, it’s your job to solicit feedback from your younger colleagues, and to really listen to what they said. It doesn’t mean that you have to agree with them all of the time. Uh, you should feel free to disagree with them, in fact. But you need first and foremost to make your listening tangible and to be really open to the feedback and to reward the candor when you get it, uh, from your, from anyone, but especially from your younger colleagues.

[00:22:30] Uh, and I think if you are, uh, if you have less power in the relationship, perhaps because you’re newer in the organization. I’m not saying that old people have all the power and young people have no power. Uh, but I think it’s important also to start with soliciting feedback and to remember that you tend to know more deeply your area, but you don’t have the breadth of experience or, um, or sort of span of influence that someone who is your manager, your manager’s manager has.

[00:23:12] Uh, and so it’s really important to solicit feedback first before you start, uh, before you start giving it. I think it’s really important to remember to give praise, to like, look for the things that we appreciate in the people who we work with. Especially people of a older or younger generation. Because I think for some reason, human beings have this great longing to stereotype. And most stereotypes we know are no longer on the table. And so we’ve put all this instinct for stereotyping into our generational stereotypes. So don’t do that. Just like, don’t make that mistake. Um, don’t assume that I am doing what I’m doing ’cause, I’m not a boomer, but I’m almost a boomer. Uh, you know. 

[00:24:09] Amy Sandler: Please don’t say you’re a boomer ’cause then that makes me a boomer. And nothing’s wrong with being a boomer, just not my life.

[00:24:14] Kim Scott: Nothing is wrong with it. Yes. 

[00:24:15] Amy Sandler: I mean. 

[00:24:16] Kim Scott: What are we then? I forget. 

[00:24:17] Amy Sandler: We’re technically Generation X, but again, nobody knows because I think, isn’t that the stereotype that like, 

[00:24:23] Kim Scott: Who knew what those people? Do we even exist? 

[00:24:28] Amy Sandler: Yes. 

[00:24:29] Kim Scott: Um, whatever we are, it’s like, don’t stereotype, don’t make these generational stereotypes. It’s really, it’s not helpful in the workplace. 

[00:24:41] Amy Sandler: So would that be your advice for, since you gave the advice for, um, is, are we saying older and younger, uh, for older folks to, 

[00:24:48] Kim Scott: Yeah, we’re allowed to be, some people are older than others. That is an objective fact. 

[00:24:52] Amy Sandler: Yeah. That is a fact. So, if you’ve got more power being older to solicit feedback from younger colleagues. And then the invitation for younger colleagues is to, uh, see if we can break out of, for everyone, um, old and younger, uh, to break out of generational stereotyping. 

[00:25:09] Kim Scott: Yeah, I also think, I just want to say, that very often you’re going to be older and you’re going to be working for someone who’s younger, someone who’s younger may have more power than you do. And that can feel kind of strange for both of you. Uh, and so I think in that case, it’s, you know, more important than ever to be respectful of one another and to solicit each other’s feedback. 

[00:25:36] Amy Sandler: Yeah. And we had a couple of podcasts, uh, addressing that and there’s some questions here and Kim, I’m curious your succinct version, they’re related. One is how can I be radically candid with my boss? And what if someone works in a toxic culture and their boss is unwilling to practice Radical Candor, can it still be used and how? 

[00:25:58] Kim Scott: So yes, you can be radically candid with your boss. Remember the order of operations, solicit feedback first, don’t dish it out before you prove you can take it. You want to make sure that you understand your boss’s perspective on what their goals are. But also what their perspective is on the work you’re doing. So solicit criticism from your boss. And then you want to give praise, giving praise to your boss. It’s not kissing up, it’s taking a beat to show your boss that you appreciate, uh, what you appreciate about what they do. Show your boss what to do more of. Uh, when you have criticism for your boss, make sure to say it in private and to gauge how what you’re saying is landing and to adjust accordingly. 

[00:26:49] So what happens if you do all those things with your boss and they are having none of it? They, uh, they do not respond well, which will sometimes happen. Uh, you know, I’m not promising that it’ll always work out. Uh, so a couple of things. One, there have been times in my career where I have had a boss who has no interest in Radical Candor, but I’ve still been able to practice that with my direct reports and with my peers. And that is really important to remember. Just because you’re not getting it doesn’t mean, uh, because you’re not operating in a culture of Radical Candor with your boss doesn’t mean you can’t create the experience of Radical Candor with your peers or if you are a middle manager with your direct reports.

[00:27:40] Um, but what do you do about your relationship with your boss? This is my advice. This is more Radical Respect advice than Radical Candor advice. Step number one, document what is happening. It’s easy to feel very gaslit. Step number two, build solidarity. Like, make sure you’re checking in with other people. Find a friend at work and say, and ask, you know, am I missing something? Like, what’s going on here? Step number three, locate the exit nearest you. In other words, figure out if you can get another job. Because if you can get another job, then it becomes much easier for you to do the fourth thing that I’m recommending, which is to have a, sit down with your boss and have a real direct conversation.

[00:28:31] Sometimes your boss just doesn’t realize what you’re doing, what they’re doing, and the impact of what they’re doing is. And let your boss know, say, I can’t work under these conditions. I can’t continue to work under these conditions. Can we, you know, can we figure out how to get on a better path? And very often, Your boss will appreciate you doing that and you won’t have to quit your job. But you only will take the risk to do that if you know you could get another job or, you know, sleep on someone’s couch or whatever it is, uh, if you’re not, you know, and sometimes you’re well and truly stuck. I want to acknowledge that as well. Um, you you know, you can also report to HR. You can report what’s happening to HR. Uh, it, HR will often be part of the solution. Not always, uh, we’ve talked about that a bunch on this podcast. And, uh, and if all else fails, you know, you can hire a lawyer, and lawyers will, uh, you know, you don’t have to necessarily pay the lawyer. If the lawyer thinks you, you have a case, they’ll take, um, uh, portion of the earnings if, uh, not the earnings, but the, portion of the lawsuit if you win it. And if you don’t win it, then the lawyer doesn’t get paid. 

[00:29:55] Amy Sandler: I’m curious as you’re reflecting that and with the recent launch of Radical Respect, how often, and I know this is just based on your own experience, this is not hard and fast data. But how often is it really, well, my boss isn’t perfect and I wish they were better at doing Radical Candor and it’s not great, but it’s okay and I can kind of make the best of it.

[00:30:17] And like you said, I can practice with my peers and practice with this or that person on my team versus the situation that you’re talking about. You know what I’m saying? I want to give people kind of a path of what are the different possibilities. Like working at Radical Candor, I will often say is the first time where my boss, the whole team, like we are practicing Radical Candor.

[00:30:35] But again, it’s radical because it’s rare. And then there’s the situation that you’re describing, which is getting support and documentation and feeling like you need to get out of there, you know, etcetera. Is there kind of a middle, um, zone as well for people to think about and what might be possible there?

[00:30:53] Kim Scott: You know, very often when I’ve talked, I’ve had friends or I’ve been in this situation myself where they’re not really happy with their boss. But they don’t really want to do anything about it. And pretty soon they have one foot out the door, but they don’t even realize they have one foot out the door. And often when someone is in that situation, I’ll tell them, well, you could decide not to talk to your boss, but you’ve already got one foot out the door. And the next thing you know, you won’t be in this job anymore and you won’t have given your boss the opportunity to fix the problem. 

[00:31:30] And, uh, often the, then the light bulbs go off. And then they’re like, oh, you’re right. I should just go talk to them before I quit. And, uh, and that’s why I say like document, once it, make, keep, you don’t have to document, but do what it is you have to do to stay confident in your own assessment of the situation. Talk to other people. I mean, you’re doing these steps anyway, those first three steps, and so be aware that you’re doing them.

[00:32:01] And before you actually quit, if you don’t really want to, I mean, if you want to quit, by all means quit. I often say don’t forget to quit. But often we quit when we don’t really want to quit. We would have liked to have stayed in that job. But, but we choose to quit rather than to have the conversation. And that seems like a lot of effort, you know, it would be easier to have the conversation. 

[00:32:25] Amy Sandler: Yeah. 

[00:32:25] Kim Scott: It’s a lot, you know, it’s a lot of work to quit. It’s a lot of work for them to replace you. Like if we can make it work, let’s try to make it work. 

[00:32:33] Amy Sandler: All right. Well, it’s time now for our Radical Candor checklist. And on this quiz, this is going to be lightning speed round.

[00:32:40] Kim Scott with, if not all the answers, very quick answers. Question number one, what do you suggest I do? Someone is using Radical Candor as an excuse to act like a jerk. 

[00:32:50] Kim Scott: Tell them that they are using obnoxious aggression, not Radical Candor. Radical Candor is all about caring personally and challenging directly, and you’re not feeling a lot of care personally.

[00:33:02] Amy Sandler: Question number two, Radical Candor, harder in a remote or hybrid work environment. 

[00:33:07] Kim Scott: Sometimes harder, sometimes easier. Just make sure you’re using your telephone. 

[00:33:14] Amy Sandler: Question number three. How does Radical Candor work in a multi generational workplace? 

[00:33:21] Kim Scott: It works great as long as the crotchety old people are open to feedback from the younger generation.

[00:33:29] Amy Sandler: Spoken. with two crotchety older, true crotchety crotchety. And the age old burning question, how can I be radically candid with my boss? 

[00:33:42] Kim Scott: Follow the order of operations. Solicit feedback first, then give praise, then give criticism, and then gauge how it’s landing.

Radical Candor Podcast Resources

• Radical Candor FAQs
• How to Be Radically Candid With Your Boss
• Practicing Radical Candor In Remote Workplaces

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Episodes are written and produced by Brandi Neal with script editing by Amy Sandler. The show features Radical Candor co-founders Kim Scott and Jason Rosoff and is hosted by Amy Sandler. Nick Carissimi is our audio engineer.

The Radical Candor Podcast theme music was composed by Cliff Goldmacher. Order his book: The Reason For The Rhymes: Mastering the Seven Essential Skills of Innovation by Learning to Write Songs.

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