How do you stay true to your values when the pressure is on? On this episode of The Radical Candor Podcast, Kim and Jason talk with Robert Glazer, author of The Compass Within, about what it really means to live and lead by your core values.
Watch the episode:
Robert shares how storytelling helps bring his framework for discovering and defining core values to life. Together, they explore how understanding what truly drives you can strengthen trust, simplify tough decisions, and help you authentically lead with care and conviction — even when it’s uncomfortable.
If you’ve ever wondered how to find your direction, make confident choices, and lead without losing yourself, this conversation is your compass.
[00:00:00] Jason Rosoff: Hey everybody. Jason here. I wanted to share an update about the show. We're going to change our schedule from about once a week to twice a month. And the reason why we're doing this is we want to take a bit of a step back and make sure that we're giving the time and attention to every episode that they need, and that you really deserve.
[00:00:18] And so, what we hope that means for next year is that you'll get two episodes a month that are full of high-quality interviews with guests that you really love and can learn from. Really, really great stories, and time for us to go deeper on the topics that are most important to you, our audience. So, we look forward to you continue to follow us, uh, twice a month for the foreseeable future. And now back to the show.
[00:00:48] Kim Scott: Hello everyone and welcome to the Radical Candor Podcast. I'm Kim Scott.
[00:00:53] Jason Rosoff: And I'm Jason Rosoff and today we're excited to welcome Robert Glazer, whose new book, The Compass Within, came out just yesterday. He is a globally recognized entrepreneur, speaker and author. He's also the founder and former CEO of a $50 million marketing agency with an award-winning values-driven culture and the author of multiple bestsellers, including Elevate and Elevate Your team.
[00:01:13] His inspirational newsletter Friday Forward, which I've been subscribed to forever. That is true, that is not just marketing hype, I have been a multi-year subscriber, now reaches over 200,000 readers every week. Welcome, Robert.
[00:01:25] Robert Glazer: Thank you for having me.
[00:01:27] Kim Scott: Welcome, Robert. We are thrilled that you are here and my first question for you is, are you standing? It is exhausting to launch a book. So, before we talk about your book. Let's talk about you. How are you?
[00:01:41] Robert Glazer: I'm barely standing, but I've been doing some things to counterbalance it. My daughter told me she was running her first 10 K at school, and so I said, you know what? I'll join you on that. And so, it's forced me to run, and so I've been trying to build up stamina and reserve over the last month.
[00:01:56] Kim Scott: Amazing. So can you share the TL, do read, tell us a little bit about the book. I'm going to let you summarize and then we'll jump into specific questions. It's such a great book. Everyone should go out and buy 10 copies today.
[00:02:11] Robert Glazer: Exactly. Thank you. So, the book is actually a parable and the way it came about was actually went to a leadership training about 13 years ago that sort of changed my life. And the first couple days were that about, hey, you gotta figure out what you value and understand that because that's how you're going to show up as an authentic leader. And I was totally on board with that; except they did not tell us how to figure out our core values.
[00:02:35] And so, I went and spent the next three months looking through some horrible exercises online and a whole bunch of things and figured out what I felt were sort of actionable core values. Made a ton of changes in my life and my business and ended up taking that process back to our company and training leaders on it and seeing a great results from it.
[00:02:54] And when I wrote Elevate, in that book, I talked about, hey, you should figure out your core values. And people were like, yeah, I should. How do I do it? And I was like, look, I don't really have anything to send you, like we have this thing.
[00:03:05] And so I turned it into this course, all that material, a couple thousand people took it, I got all these notes like this is really helping me, all this stuff. And so I wanted to turn it into a book, but I had this vision of this book at Barnes and Nobles and walking down the aisle, it's such a clear vision and it's called like, On Values, and no one wants to buy it or read it because they're like, "what? I don't even know what this is sort of about".
[00:03:27] But I was like, I feel like if I could explain this through story, and I'm a huge fan of Pat Lencioni's work who read this for me and actually helped come up with a title. I was like, and my daughter, the same one who's doing the 10km, kind of challenged me one time, you should write a fiction book 'cause all you do is nonfiction.
[00:03:44] Kim Scott: Yeah.
[00:03:44] Robert Glazer: I'm always challenging her. And at some point, it all came together. I was like, maybe I could show this, not tell this. And so that's the approach I tried to take and a lot of people who have read it before it came out, even though it's about this character, Jamie. They've told me about a scene with their partner or a scene with their boss, it totally reflected for them something personally in their own life.
[00:04:04] Kim Scott: I love that. I'm going to give you a true confession right now. So, when I was back working at Apple and we were designing, managing at Apple, somebody wanted to start with values, and they were going to give like 20 minutes for everybody.
[00:04:20] Robert Glazer: And your eyes are rolling and like I know, yeah.
[00:04:21] Kim Scott: I was like, no, we're not Like, like, like I, you know, I think values are really important, but if you say write down your core values in 20 minutes, yeah. You're not giving it the space that it deserves. I love that you're doing this, and I love that you're giving it the space that it deserves. And I love that you're using fiction because I agree fiction is great.
[00:04:45] Robert Glazer: And I think if, if I said again the topic of do you understand your personal core values and how to make better decisions, people go like, yeah, yeah, like integrity and family. And then if you read the book, you can understand why that doesn't work. But I, if I try to make that case to you cold, it's pretty hard. So, I think it's, it's introducing people to the topic who wouldn't have considered it. And family and integrity are two of my, like most heard, but least helpful values, uh, that, that I like to give examples of.
[00:05:15] Kim Scott: Yeah, I love that. So why do core values, why start with values? Let's start at the beginning.
[00:05:22] Robert Glazer: So, I, I, uh, again, I was one of those people who I think was values oriented and couldn't articulate them though. I think a lot of us know we are values driven. We know when they're violated. It's like when you hit the electric fence, you feel the electric fence. And I always say the goal, the goal is to like see the signs that say, don't go here and, and go here instead. And I just think we can make a lot of better decisions.
[00:05:48] And I, when I think of kind of Jim Collins five level of leadership and the level five, like that's deep self-awareness. And what I have seen is we all show up. You can have any sort of leadership doctrine you want as an organization, but you can't tell people how they are going to lead specifically.
[00:06:03] And I think most of us lead from our values, whether we realize it or not. And it's a difference of it being an asset or an Achilles heel. And I have seen numerous cases of both, and I just don't think as a 30 or 40 or 50-year-old in the work, this stuff is pretty baked in at this point in our lives.
[00:06:20] Jason Rosoff: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:20] Robert Glazer: And it comes from deep experiences early on in life, and I've now, I've done this with hundreds of people and thousands, like 99% come from something you are trying to double down from that was really important in your childhood or something that you are trying to run 180 degrees from the other way, other away from. But, but pain and passion like close together.
[00:06:40] So this is not about going back and blaming or whatever, but when you can connect it to something and realize, oh, this is important to me and this. Like if I'm a person for whom trust is really important, I have probably had a violation of trust in my life. And if I ask people, I'll say, I don't want to know what it is, but you're talking about all this trust. Did you have a violation of trust? And they turn white, or they have like a tear like almost every time.
[00:07:02] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:02] Robert Glazer: And so, I'm so just understand this is how you operate with your friends and as a leader and you show up. But here's the crazy thing, Kim, like I've seen. Leaders who operate, who have this trust thing, but who don't know it. They just sort people into; can I trust them or not trust them in the workplace? And they drive HR crazy. And the people are like, I don't, I'm in jail without a key and I don't know why.
[00:07:22] And that's very, yeah, that's very different from someone who would go in and say, Hey. Kim and Jason, you're joining my team, my name's Bob or Robert or wherever I want to be. And, and you know, trust is really important to me. 'cause again, for this person, like it is, and so yeah, if you show up late to meetings and if you miss a deadline and if I can't find you in an afternoon, like these are all things that break trust and just know once it's broken with me, it's really hard to get back. So, if you see me, if I feel distant, I probably am and we, you should come have a conversation. Those are different worlds with the same information.
[00:07:54] Kim Scott: Yeah, and I would almost say what you're talking about is not so much trust as it is reliability. And so that's why I think taking the time to write down these and define what you mean.
[00:08:05] Like for me, trust is about are you going to tell me the truth as opposed, you know?
[00:08:09] Robert Glazer: Right. Then this is why integrity, like what's below it. On an interviewing the guy last week and he, which I can do with you, which, which we start to how to get to one, like the, because the, what's the thing that drives you crazy?
[00:08:19] And he was like; I hate people that think that they're better than other people. Like I just
[00:08:24] Kim Scott: Yes.
[00:08:24] Robert Glazer: Deeply.
[00:08:24] Kim Scott: Yeah.
[00:08:24] Robert Glazer: And he, he told me the story when he was 10 years old and the neighbor was talking to his son and saying, if you don't work hard, you're going to end up like that contractor. And so, his whole life is horizontal, his organization's horizontal, everything he does, everyone is on the same plane. It was fascinating when, he's like, oh my God, I, I didn't even realize I had orchestrated all of this stuff around, no one is better than anyone else.
[00:08:48] Kim Scott: Yeah. And some people don't believe that. I mean, there are, I think, the top-down elitist crowd in management, right?
[00:08:56] Robert Glazer: There are some people who. Who do believe Yes.
[00:08:59] Kim Scott: Yeah.
[00:08:59] Robert Glazer: That there are people that are better than others.
[00:09:01] Kim Scott: Sorry, Jason, you were going to say something?
[00:09:03] Jason Rosoff: I'm very curious about the, the inverse test. So, I, I want to hear, hear more about that because I, I do think that it is really challenging. Something that I've encountered over and over again since the, this idea of values, especially since the conversation about culture in the workplace has become really commonplace.
[00:09:21] The, the word values get used a lot.
[00:09:25] Robert Glazer: Yeah.
[00:09:25] Jason Rosoff: It's like ad nauseum and I think that people are quite confused about it. So that the reason that I was drawn to that term is I often think that when we're challenged to understand or define something like the defining its inverse can be really valuable. So maybe now's a good time to tell us just a little bit more about the inverse tests.
[00:09:43] Robert Glazer: So, we'll test it with each of you. ‘Because I've had some fascinating conversations when I've done this. And it's funny 'cause the visceral reaction tells me I'm on the right page even more than what they're saying.
[00:09:53] Kim Scott: Yeah,
[00:09:53] Robert Glazer: but, but to what you were saying, I think that core values in the workplace are the defining aspect of a culture. I also agree with you that 98% companies are full of. Crap. We'll go with, I'm not sure what this podcast is rated.
[00:10:05] Kim Scott: Yeah, you can say anything on our podcast,
[00:10:07] Robert Glazer: you know, because they're not, it's on the wall and they're not reinforcing it with behaviors or hiring or otherwise. So, most organizations have something they're rewarding, whether it's the or this thing that's on the wall or not.
[00:10:19] But then there's the individual and their personal values. You're trying to find some concentric circles there. But the inverse test would say that. If the definition, when I talk about a core value, maybe just even defining it, is sort of a non-negotiable principle that guides your behavior and decision.
[00:10:34] So I think it's intrinsic. It's not aspirational. It reflects who you are and probably who you've always been. It's consistent and then shows up in all areas of work life and relationships, which is why family doesn't really work as a core value. Because
[00:10:47] Kim Scott: yeah,
[00:10:48] Robert Glazer: if I get below what people mean for family, some people mean like, close group of people and other mean like always show up. And there's a whole bunch of different definitions. And then they're clarifying, they help you make better choices. So
[00:11:00] Kim Scott: yeah,
[00:11:00] Robert Glazer: generally, when a core value is violated, it feels horrible. And that's one of the things I use in my validator to test if you're on the right thing, we test the op, we do the opposite test. But often I can find people's dominant core value by starting with the opposite test.
[00:11:15] So I would be like, Jason, like tell me. And most people, it's funny, I don't want to know the actual thing, but you know the incident, most people have an exact in their mind. So, tell me like a type of person or an interaction or something that just makes your blood a behavior that just makes your blood boil. Like what does that look like?
[00:11:35] Jason Rosoff: Hmm. Yeah, the thing that's coming to mind, and I don't know if this would be for all time, uh, but I have found myself to be really intolerant lately of people who clearly show no consideration for others. So, this happens in small ways, and big ways.
[00:11:53] A small way that this happens is like someone is driving and they're on their phone or looking down or doing something else, and then they do something crazy that puts somebody else at risk in danger. Yeah. And I find myself really judging that person, and I know that something could be going on for that person, but there's something visceral in my reaction of just like, you just don't care. Like you don't care about anybody else. You're totally focused on yourself, and you don't care what happens. That's like, I would say that's like. A smaller example.
[00:12:22] Robert Glazer: See how Jason moved from like talking about it lightly to, he can't even hide his anger and his judgment. And again, it's not, I understand what you're saying, we all hate to judge, but when a value is violated it, we just, we do like, 'cause it is the opposite.
[00:12:36] So you probably have some value that's oriented around care and consideration and just watching people who don't think about how they show up in the world, or they don't care about the reaction. Like it just, and look, if we spent the time and I'd say like, let's go be like, you know, usually it comes from one root.
[00:12:53] I said, so you either were given care in consideration or there was someone in your life who, who just did not show that. And so, you as a little kid were like, I will never be that person. Right. That in almost all situations’ people tell me, yep. I can clearly identify like which one of those it is.
[00:13:11] Jason Rosoff: Yeah.
[00:13:11] For me it's definitely, luckily the former, which is like, I think I was shown a lot of care and consideration.
[00:13:16] Robert Glazer: Yeah.
[00:13:17] Jason Rosoff: And, and similar to the, the thing about that was rooted in my family experience. I know for other people it might come from something else but like in my family care and consideration were incredibly important and demonstrating it through action was important.
[00:13:30] Robert Glazer: Right. And it was reinforced that people that don't do that, like we don't, you know, we don't, people that don't do, that aren't aligned with our values probably.
[00:13:37] Jason Rosoff: Right.
[00:13:37] Robert Glazer: I, it's funny, I, I was on with a well-known podcast hosted, hasn't been released yet, but I, he had a very similar one to, to an employee that I had.
[00:13:46] So she, you know, her core value was you have to come with evidence. Like, and, and, and this has showed up at how she managed.
[00:13:52] Kim Scott: Yeah.
[00:13:53] Robert Glazer: Like you must bring data and facts and whatever to me. And when we got into it, like quickly, like her mom was basically a conspiracy theorist and told her.
[00:14:02] Kim Scott: Wow.
[00:14:02] Robert Glazer: All of this stuff when she was a child, that then she got older and realized wasn't true at all.
[00:14:07] Mm-hmm. So, we talked about how this shows up as a manager, she needs to be able to communicate to her team. Like, look, you gotta come to me, not with wild theories, but you, you gotta come with, with, with backup. And this host was basically saying the same thing when he, he, he inadvertently, when I asked him for the opposite, he told this story that was so like, lit up and he got so animated and when we unpacked it, it was actually three of his core values. This one interaction was the opposite of three, which was why he got so, and he remembered it like it was yesterday.
[00:14:39] This person dropped into a conversation, didn't listen at all, and stated their authority and just stomped all over the other person. Basically, like credibility was one of his core values and it was an almost identical story. I think he had a parent who was very bullying and authoritative and would say stuff, and as he got older, he realized. Most of that stuff wasn't true, but it was said with such conviction that people believed them. And so, to this day, his whole career is about like listening to people and cred. It's just super interesting how these things all connect.
[00:15:11] Jason Rosoff: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:12] Kim Scott: So interesting. Um, yeah, I think.
[00:15:15] Jason Rosoff: let's do Kim, I don't think Kim should get to get to Dodge the,
[00:15:18] Robert Glazer: all right. Well, Kim, what's your, without again, not being politically correct. And you saw Jason, he's tried to start politically correct and
[00:15:23] Jason Rosoff: I did. I did.
[00:15:24] Robert Glazer: He got into That really pisses me off, right? Like sort of,
[00:15:27] Kim Scott: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, I think, uh, I think, well Jason is very measured, uh, uh, and that also he's very also,
[00:15:35] Robert Glazer: are you Midwestern, Jason?
[00:15:36] Kim Scott: He's also very passionate. New Yorker,
[00:15:39] or not
[00:15:39] Jason Rosoff: New Yorker,
[00:15:40] Robert Glazer: city of
[00:15:40] Jason Rosoff: I'm a New Yorker.
[00:15:40] Robert Glazer: Interesting.
[00:15:41] Yeah. Upstate. Upstate, yeah.
[00:15:42] Okay, that makes sense.
[00:15:43] Kim Scott: So, I'm a southerner and I think the thing that really erodes trust with me most quickly is when people tell me one thing, but I can tell.
[00:15:53] Robert Glazer: Yeah,
[00:15:54] Kim Scott: they don't really believe that thing. Or they're trying, you know, they're trying to be nice, but they're actually not being so nice at. Like, there's that, there's that joke about the South where somebody is got, this woman gets sent to finishing school and she's taught to say how nice, but what she really means is f you. And when I hear that, when I, when I can tell someone is thinking F you, but really trying to, you know, manipulate me or, so just.... Like it drives me bonkers.
[00:16:29] Robert Glazer: Yeah. Kim, you're actually.
[00:16:30] Kim Scott: Fear of insincerity. Yeah.
[00:16:32] Robert Glazer: It's so funny, someone told me an almost. A, after the book launches, someone asks me like, I think I'll have enough general data as people send me their values to start building some kind of, I think these live within, you know, a certain number of zones.
[00:16:46] But someone told me on my identical story that they grew up in the Midwest and actually they preferred, they thought he, he's funny. He. I have a core value of kindness, but for me, I actually have learned to feel like the New Yorker who yells at me and tells me where the thing is, is more kind than I grew up with all this passive aggressiveness that I was told was kind, but it wasn't.
[00:17:07] Kim Scott: It's not. Yeah, right.
[00:17:08] Robert Glazer: Look, you're having the same. And he told me this such vivid story that reminds me of this. And so, he's like, yeah, for me it's kindness, but it's not the fake kindness I was told about like
[00:17:18] Kim Scott: real kindness.
[00:17:18] Robert Glazer: It's like, it's like, get me to the answer. The guy who he goes, he goes, he said to me, the guy who goes, it's right over there, stupid. Let me walk you over there. He goes, I like that better than the person who goes home and tells someone they did a good deed all day by, you know, right now, like is a very similar thing to this person. It's almost visceral.
[00:17:36] Yeah, it's almost an identical story.
[00:17:38] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And I love that you're pushing people to tell stories and to find where that emotion comes from. ‘Cause like we were talking earlier about trust, and somebody who I worked closely with once told me they couldn't trust me. And for me, this was. Such an insult.
[00:17:58] 'cause in my mind, I had to have done something that like I would've had to tell them a lie, or I would've had to do something that was out of integrity for me to earn their distrust. It took me a long time to realize she couldn't trust me because of my race, and she had been so badly mistreated in the past, and it was very hard for me to come to grips with that.
[00:18:26] But I realized like even the word trust. We need to like double click on it and understand why it's relatively easy for me to give trust and to expect it because I grew up in a high trust environment despite all the manipulative insincerity, like overall, right? Yeah.
[00:18:45] Robert Glazer: There were probably prevailing.
[00:18:47] Factors there. One of them that you probably do take with you is this notion of, of it, it, it, it's probably like, um, benefit of the doubt, right? There's some combination of, of, of benefit with a doubt, but also like, don't be like in like giving people the benefit of the doubt is a good thing. Being falsely like Yeah, like is different.
[00:19:06] So yeah. That, that, that's interesting.
[00:19:09] Kim Scott: Yeah. But it's easy for me to, to sort of give trust. 'Cause usually I haven't, you know, I've been treated. Very well on average by other people in my life. If I hadn't been, it would be much harder for me to give trust.
[00:19:22] Robert Glazer: Yeah, and this is why I say that the one-word core values don't work.
[00:19:25] Like, yes, people say integrity. I've got 10 different definitions of integrity. Yeah, they say family. I want to know. 'Cause if you tell me how you show up for your family, then I'll tell you like. How you probably show up for your friends and your employees, and in fact, someone who says family, they mean, because I always joke around, I'm like, do you mean family?
[00:19:43] Like some people believe like, okay, we just ignore everything the drunk uncle's doing, right? Because my family's very important to me, but I don't believe you get a free pass because your family, so that's not my. That's not my definition of family, but if it means like you, you should always be there, then that's actually, if you're, if you're running around like crazy and you're someone for whom the, the core value is always show up and your friend's dad dies and you're like, should I go to the funeral?
[00:20:09] I shouldn't go to the funeral. You should go to the funeral. 'Cause you're going to really be upset with yourself if you miss an opportunity to be there. Yeah.
[00:20:17] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And that means you're not showing up for all the other random, smaller, less important things like it. Right. But that's the irony of some of these core values is like I, I, I, for a long time, I would feel guilty when people would reach out and say, do you have just 15 minutes to talk?
[00:20:34] Yeah. And I said yes to so many of these things that I was not showing up for my children. And then that was what gave me the. You know, the spine to say, no, I don't have 15 minutes is a big ask, actually. Yeah. And I don't have it, unfortunately.
[00:20:47] Robert Glazer: Yeah. First, first things first One. One, when I asked one person really what his definition of family was, and we got into it, he was like, your words need to match your actions.
[00:20:57] And actually one of his biggest regrets was that. In a part of his career, he had said his marriage was a priority and he had clearly not made it a priority. And so like, yeah, that was a place where he was out of alignment with his values. But that's a very different than family than your words and your action.
[00:21:14] Like that's a, I know what to do with your words. Need to match your actions, right? Yeah, yeah. And I know what to do with that in the workplace and otherwise.
[00:21:30] Jason Rosoff: We've zoomed way in, and I want to give people the opportunity to understand the lay of the land a little bit. So, can we zoom out for a second and just talk through at a high level like how your, the discovery framework, like how it works conceptually? Yeah.
[00:21:44] Robert Glazer: Yeah, so you can, you'll watch the character in the book go through this, but there're these six questions that I've kind of come up with that are these behavioral based questions that are designed to kind of pull from the highlights and low lights of your life.
[00:21:57] And we'll, we'll go through a few of them, but people are always struggling to write 'em down. So, I just put 'em at Robert glazer.com/six. You can just see the questions so that we don't have to make sure we get into everyone. So. If you answer all of these on different pieces of paper and start to look across them, and one of them is one of these anti ones, I'll give you an example.
[00:22:17] You will start to see some themes, and that's sort of the first collection phase. So, like, one of the questions, uh, is, is that opposite like Juan, it's like, hey, what is, what is it about qualities and other people that you really. Kind of struggle with, and then you'll be able to match that up against some of the positives.
[00:22:33] One of them is, you know, what professional roles or settings did you do your best work? And I don't want to hear like working for Kim, I want to hear like, oh, it was a small team where I had autonomy, and I had a great boss. That was Kim. Like what were the dynamics of that? And then again, what work environments were you super frustrated in?
[00:22:52] And we look at the same things personally. And then there's even one, like, what would you want said about you in your eulogy? I think that really focuses it down for people on like, how do they want to be described? And so, you answer these questions, you start to isolate the themes that come up across all of them, and then you run it through this kind of validation step that I have for which no one word core value would survive.
[00:23:22] So, and we can, we can, we can talk through that and sort of, so people can understand how that works.
[00:23:27] Kim Scott: I love that it's going to help people avoid what I call the credo problem. Yes, exactly. Where you write a bunch of, I mean, who's going to write like. Integrity doesn't matter to me. You know? Right. Paper maybe. I mean, there's someone out there will, yeah, maybe someone out there will write that down.
[00:23:44] Like companies. Very few
[00:23:45] Robert Glazer: companies, right? Like companies. Yeah. Each one of your core values should be differentiated, and all four or three should not be the same as someone else's, right? You're going to have kind of a different. Genotype. So, the, the four questions in this kind of core validator, the first two are like about getting the right theme.
[00:24:01] 'cause we want the right theme before the right label. I know people like to get a clever name, but the first thing is, could you use the theme to make a decision past or present? To me, that's the ultimate value. Yes. Of a value. Could I use it to make a decision? So. When I did this, does it help.
[00:24:16] Kim Scott: me know to do X or Y?
[00:24:19] Robert Glazer: Right? So, when I did this, I had lots of words around independence and freedom and did it by myself. And so, when I looked at this deema, like, yes, I can make a decision around something that's independent or dependent, right? And I ended up. With self-reliance in the end, but we'll, we'll, we'll, I'll explain that.
[00:24:35] So then the second to test, am I on the right track, is, does the opposite of it strike a nerve? We talked before. The opposite of self-reliant for me, like people who are super dependent and even say needy, like drives me. Crazy. I even, I joke, I joke a lot with my wife and daughter around, like even when they're, they both don't like to look for anything and I always say, you guys are great looking, but horrible lookers.
[00:24:59] And when they ask, when they can't find something and they ask me within 10 seconds of not being able to find it to help them, I'm like, I'm happy to help you. But you should, you lost it, so you should look for it for a minute first. Of course. Like it would never, yeah, it would never occur to me to ask someone to look for my thing before I looked for it.
[00:25:15] Like that's just sort of my brain. So yes, the anti value test, and then when you get down to, okay, I have the right theme, it's. Is it a phrase rather than a word because it needs to kind of locked in, like give everyone a chance or Here's a great one. One of our employees had include all perspectives. I know exactly what work to give that person.
[00:25:34] Yeah. And I know what work they would hate doing. Right? Yeah. Go, go make a unilateral decision without talking to anyone. Like, yeah. No, no, no. Thank you. And then the last step is just could I objectively rate myself on it, which I think all company core values should meet that test too. Can I say that I did it.
[00:25:51] Or didn't do it. If you run it against those four things, you'll come up with something that is very action oriented and helps you with decision making.
[00:26:01] Kim Scott: I love that. I love that so much. And it's so like, I remember there was one point in my career were. I was asked to do something that I considered to be unethical, and I said no, and then my boss was asked to do the same thing.
[00:26:17] It was going to; it was going to make me a lot of money and cost the company money. It was like, sign up for this ad program, spend $10,000 of the company's money and you'll get some friends and family stock. I was like. I don't know what the law is, but that should be illegal if it's not. And then my and then, and then it is.
[00:26:34] It's known I know it's a corporate opportunity and it is illegal, but it just kind of felt wrong. So, I said no, and that's like part of my core value. But then my boss was asked to do the same thing, and he said yes. And., I felt, I did not feel like I had done the right thing. I felt lazy. I felt like somehow, I was not playing the game.
[00:26:55] Right. You know? And I think if I had gone through your process, I would've felt good. I, I still would've done the right thing, but I would've felt good about having done the right thing.
[00:27:03] Robert Glazer: You just described the electric fence, you kind of knew it was there. Yeah. But if you were able to say, I am not doing that because it violates my value of X.
[00:27:13] Yes. But you, you point out this is really important. Point that you make, making a decision in line with your core values usually costs you something and it costs you something in the short term. It
[00:27:22] Kim Scott: costs me, I can tell you, $200,000, that's exactly what it costs me,
[00:27:26] Robert Glazer: but it probably maybe saved you jail or saved you, whatever.
[00:27:29] And it's really hard in our world today. When everyone's, uh, with social media Yeah. And they crowd and they run in, I always say, you get no credit when your core value is the boat and the, the, the, the water and the boat are going in the same direction. Yeah. You get credit when the boat is uphill, and I think.
[00:27:45] Kim Scott: by writing it down and by saying, I did this because this is my value and I'm not going to violate it, then.
[00:27:53] When it costs you or when people say you should have done something different, you can just take a deep breath and say, wrong.
[00:28:01] Robert Glazer: Yeah, you know, I did it because I have to. I maybe your value is do the right thing or something like that or do what you know is right and you're like, clearly, whatever they're telling me, I just know that this is wrong for.
[00:28:11] Like, you know, and, and so I have, I, this feels totally good to me. Again, had you had, you made that $200,000, right? And then maybe there was a raid. I mean, your career might have gone very differently, right?
[00:28:24] Kim Scott: I sus, I mean, he got away with it, and I suspect I would've too. But what wouldn't have happened is what mattered much more, which is.
[00:28:31] I would be looking back now and saying, oh my gosh, I violated my own integrity, my own definition of integrity, and that I think losing that sense of who you are is something that none of us can afford to lose.
[00:28:46] Robert Glazer: No, we can, we can. People ask this a lot, like you can, particularly in work environments, two things happen when you're in an environment or with a boss or where there's.
[00:28:55] Real conflict of values. One, it kind of feels like you're being hammered every day. Like your kind of go, yeah. Going against like, you know, just feels terrible. Like you're being walking up to a punching bag every day. Yeah. But the other is probably more of what you're talking about where. You actually suppress the knowingly suppress those values so you can get through whatever you need to get through.
[00:29:17] And then there tends to be some huge explosion or guilt later on for having you subjugate them so that you can do what you need to do and to lie to yourself. And then its kind of. Explodes at a, at a later point and, and in, in a blowout or guilt or regret or something like that,
[00:29:34] Kim Scott: the one thing none of us can afford to lose is ourselves, you know?
[00:29:38] And, and you can't put too high a price on yourself, you know?
[00:29:42] Robert Glazer: No. And, and, and look, you look with a lot of leaders, and what I, what I did as an early leader, right as I walked into this work, I think, which is very common, is I took all the best practices of the leaders that I liked, and I took the opposite of the leaders.
[00:29:57] That I really didn't like and that's what I started doing. Yeah. Not really me work better for her than me. Him, like I, yeah. This this is a little bit like giving per people permission to like, again, lead from themselves. And I've had a lot of companies, I said, here's our standard for leaders and behaviors and that's all great, but we are all going to lead differently.
[00:30:19] And I think it is those authentic leaders that are super comfortable with, you know, who they are, that ultimately. Are those level five leaders?
[00:30:28] Kim Scott: A hundred percent. I mean, it's one of the problems with all these books, the five things that these 12 different leaders do every day. I was like, that's not going to help.
[00:30:37] None of those five things do I do. And I don't want to do those things. In fact,
[00:30:40] Robert Glazer: and all that, all of those books I've learned, all of those books suffer from, um, uh, what's that bias called? The, the, the survivorship bias. Uh, yeah. You know, because they don't, they don't have a control group for other people that did those same behaviors.
[00:30:53] But weren't successful. Exactly. Yeah.
[00:30:55] Jason Rosoff: I'm super enjoying this conversation in part because I'm connecting more deeply to why this is a parable, which is like I, I think if you said, do all of these, like do all of these things and you will understand yourself and you'll be successful. I think that is very different than seeing it in action, and to your point of using real life examples, because there's no control.
[00:31:20] You wind up with this false sense of certainty based on that real life example, but using a fictional example gives the reader a different kind of license. So, look for the lesson beneath the lesson, and don't worry so much about the specifics of what Jamie did, but instead focus on does this resonate or not resonate with you?
[00:31:39] How does this, or why does this matter to you? How would this apply in your life that I'm just admitting to myself that it's harder to do when it's a real person. Sometimes if I dislike that person, I'll push myself away from them and say, I would do it differently. Or if I like that person or I feel some sort of like kinship with that person, I'll say, I'm attracted to that, therefore I will do something like that.
[00:32:01] But with a fictional character, you have poor license, right? You're like, this is made up. And so now I can relate this to myself in whatever way feels. Best to me.
[00:32:09] Robert Glazer: Yeah. And a nonfiction book probably wouldn't have had a character, would've just said, Hey, here's the framework. And again, I just, yeah. I had these like nightmares of like a book that no one would read because I believe so deeply in this stuff.
[00:32:20] But until we have this 10-minute conversation, or until I can show it to you, you're assuming it's the 99% of the. Bullshit that you see on the walls and otherwise, so the book does the same thing as this conversation, which it's like, oh, this is real. And I've had these conversations, and I've had this boss, and I've had this thought about my partner like, are we the right fit for each other?
[00:32:41] Interestingly, the one that I think a lot of people forget the most about is their community or the communities they choose to operate in because it's really hard to like to be in an environment that rewards. You know, let's say you are that person, include all perspectives, right? And you like talking to people and you have curiosity, and you live in one of these towns where it's like in a lot you, you like last election, you have to have a Harris or a Trump sign.
[00:33:05] Like there's not even an in-between and you're like; this is just not. Me like this is not, you know, or health is a priority and the people here, the main form of socialization is going to the bar five nights a week. So, to my example, before, I'm either going to opt outta that and probably feel really bad, or I'm going to go to the bar and then also feel really bad.
[00:33:28] And I bad. If health is the most important thing in my life, I probably want to live in Park City, you know, or someplace where all the socialization is around. Hiking or biking or, or, or something else. Yeah.
[00:33:40] Kim Scott: Yeah, yeah. Love that. Love that. Another thing that I love about your book are the sort of the big three life decisions that you write about.
[00:33:49] Can you tell, tell us a little bit about what, what are, what are the big three that you describe?
[00:33:56] Robert Glazer: Yeah.
[00:33:56] Kim Scott: And why do your values matter? How can your values help you? To make better. Yeah. So, if big three life decisions,
[00:34:04] Robert Glazer: if, if a good core value is the ultimate decision-making rubric, the big three are the ultimate decisions.
[00:34:10] And I actually think you have very little chance of success if you don't have core values alignment. And those are either your chosen vocation or your place of work. For some people it's the right work versus the right place. Second is their partner. And third we just talking about is, is their community.
[00:34:26] And um, look, I didn't. I always say my wife and I are very different people, different personalities, different even activities, and I used to think of, oh, is that a, you know, that a problem? I came realize we're always in alignment on the big things. Like it's like that's never, I think a lot of people have the opposite.
[00:34:45] They have some surface thing, but they are not in alignment on the big thing. Uh, to the extent of, we just talked about like how deep these are. So, imagine your relationship and these things come and I heard these stories. So, imagine one person, you know, grew up with a, a parent that was told they had a year to live and ended up a year living seven years.
[00:35:04] And it was just this tor, so they are about live for today, right? Yeah. And this other person grew up in an environment where their parents spent everything and never planned for tomorrow, and they just, they became, it's all about saving and long-term planning. These people are now married. This one wants to constantly think about the future and this one doesn't want to think past today.
[00:35:23] You can probably get around that if that's one point of friction. But imagine we picked three other values that look like that in that relationship. That's going to be really, really hard. In fact, yeah, in a leadership development program, I was helping someone figure out their core values. They, we figured them out.
[00:35:41] She took a big sigh, and I was like, what? And she's like, I just realized. And I knew she was going through a divorce that my ex is the opposite of two of these things. And I'm like, wow. And I was like, I could, I can see that that would be hard. Like that's that, that is, yeah, that is hard. If you are a generous, oriented person and they are a self-oriented person.
[00:36:03] Again, we can dance around a couple of these things, but imagine two opposite magnets and these are the, and you have to make the decisions about where you live and the values for your kids and how you spend your money and you're. Orientation is opposite on everything. It it's really hard. Yeah.
[00:36:19] Kim Scott: Yeah, it's really funny.
[00:36:21] I mean, these are not values exactly, but I didn't get married until I was 40, almost 39, and I couldn't understand why I was single. You know? I was like, I'm not such a bad person. And I was, I would say to myself, why is this so hard? I'm just looking for someone who is funny, smart, and decent, and when I was 39, I thought I have those things in the wrong order.
[00:36:49] Like decent, decent needs to be first decent.
[00:36:51] Robert Glazer: As soon as you said that I was thinking a tie to your other value. Like do Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I was.
[00:36:55] Kim Scott: dating some assholes and uh,
[00:36:58] Robert Glazer: and, but they were funny assholes. Yeah,
[00:37:00] Kim Scott: they were very funny. They were very entertaining. Um, but yeah, uh, so, so it's really, it is so useful to.
[00:37:08] Write down like what are your values and also what are you looking for in others? Right. And maybe they're slightly different things.
[00:37:16] Robert Glazer: Yeah. And again, the things aren't going to be perfect. You're not going to be perfect with a company, you're not going to be clones, but there's things that are more compatible than others.
[00:37:25] Yeah. In fact, a company that takes core values. Usually, we'll come up with behavioral based interview questions for their core values. Okay, Kim? Like we have, own it. Tell me about a time when you screwed something up at a last company and how did you own it? And you will either tell me a story where you have humility and, and you made a lot of mistakes, and you learn from them.
[00:37:44] Or you'll tell me a story unwillingly that where everyone else was at fault, but you, right? Yeah. And that will tell you. Yeah. Well, you can almost think in dating, like if you knew this, this would be a pretty good thing to figure out some behavioral based questions around like, like were you ever not decent to anyone you know in the past?
[00:38:00] And then they tell you a story that you're like, okay, I can't recover from that.
[00:38:03] Kim Scott: And what about your job? Like how do you use your values to figure out what, what job?
[00:38:08] Robert Glazer: Yeah, so I think a
[00:38:09] Kim Scott: company to join.
[00:38:10] Robert Glazer: So, I think there's vocation and job, right? So, so it might really help you figure out the type. For a lot of people, they're like, so if I figure out that what my values are like, and they're not aligned, I say, well, if you find your company, maybe not even the values that are on the wall, but the values they're living are diametrically opposed to your values, then.
[00:38:29] Yes, you gotta quit. You probably will quit, but you don't need the Jerry McGuire moment. I think just deciding to quit and knowing that you made that consciously and then working towards that will help you. In fact, you may have a value that says, I can't quit and put my family at risk because I'm a Yeah, I'm, I'm about providing.
[00:38:46] Right. So, but then I think there's some other stuff too where you might say, even within that job, again, you realize you're the. Include all perspectives person, like, I'm going to, I realize I like this type of work. Maybe I'm in marketing and I'm going to ask to be on like the customer satisfaction team.
[00:39:02] Because what I love doing is going and like figuring out trends from other people and listening to people and getting feedback. So, it may help you identify. Maybe again, you're in the wrong type of work or the types of things that you want to do, or next time your boss asks you to do something and you're like, oh, I know why I don't want to do this.
[00:39:21] Like, I'm very clear now, like this is an indecent thing they're asking me to do. I don't want to go scream at someone like that. You, you at least have the words to kind. Uh, figure out maybe how to do that. I think for a lot of people what they're trying to do is find companies and vocations and organizations where there's values compatibility.
[00:39:40] It's not liked a perfect, it's never going to be a perfect fit, but I think there's compatibility.
[00:39:45] Kim Scott: Yeah, and I think also sometimes what I really wanted to do from the time I was in high school is a novelist, but I could not support myself with my and. And so, I remember coming to a place where I realized when I was working at Google, what I really care about in writing a novel is thinking about.
[00:40:08] How to create environments where people can flourish. I can put that interest into this job, which is going to hopefully allow me to write that novel at some one fine day.
[00:40:20] Robert Glazer: Yeah. That is probably, if I look across your work, it's probably a theme around that, right? Yeah. Guessing radical candor and decent have, having ovens pricing.
[00:40:28] There's a connection in there. Yeah. Half hour to dig into that. I had sent me a note who said they did the exercise, and they realized that actually they had a passion for both contributing and education specifically that they hadn't sort of realized. And while they didn't quit their job, there was an opening for the school board that came up, and they never would've thought of running it when they saw it.
[00:40:50] They were like, oh, I'm going to do that. And so, joining that school board had kind of filled, they were, it was giving them some of that in their, in their life. So, yeah, it's not that you're going to wholesale, you know, go change all of this stuff tomorrow, but I think there are a lot of tweaks. It's funny, yeah.
[00:41:05] That the de there's something with it clearly on the decency, like, and being a good human and, and that radical candor, which is, is a. It's funny. And you said before also that it's, it's, you like the direct, the kindness is the directness, you know, not the dancing around it.
[00:41:20] Kim Scott: Well, I could talk to you all day, but I want to make sure that we leave time for you to share with us your personal core values.
[00:41:28] You have gone through this exercise, obviously, but I don't have these by now than I need. Yeah,
[00:41:33] Robert Glazer: so, my, my, my mine are my dominant core value and why I am here today is find a better way and share it. And I think the share it piece is kind of a. Different. Some people like to find a better way and keep it to themselves.
[00:41:45] Health and vitality, self-reliance, respectful, authenticity and, and long-term orientation. I was giving you that self-reliance example, like I, I like will drive myself home from the hospital unless they tell me that like I can't, like that's just always yeah. Been very big thing for me.
[00:42:03] Kim Scott: I love that, and I can understand what each of those things means and how they would.
[00:42:09] Drive your decisions.
[00:42:10] Robert Glazer: Yeah, and look, why I was so attracted to your radical candor thing was because it so directly ties to my core value of respectful authenticity. And one of the programs that we did, and what my TED Talk was about at our company was this whole thing around trying to eliminate two weeks notice by having people have like.
[00:42:27] Real and direct conversations as you get towards the end of employment. So yeah, that, that have a different way for people to leave. And I, again, I didn't realize it, but that whole program was about how can we be more respectful? And the only way we can do that is if people are willing to have authentic conversations around, hey, I don't know that this is working out, and can we help you find something better?
[00:42:47] Or, hey, you know, I think I don't want this job anymore. Like, can we, can we do something different?
[00:42:55] Jason Rosoff: I, I think, I don't know that self-reliance is a core value for me, but when you gave the example of good looking, but bad looker, I am that person also. But if I can't find it, I just assume that's my fault and I don't ask anybody for help.
[00:43:09] So I just like to go on in my life without the thing that I was looking for, which is maybe like, I, I guess the follow up question is it to, to like your core values is, uh. This cost that you talk about of like really following your core. Like, I paid a cost, right? I guess I just can't find that thing, so I'm going to, I'm about buy a new one, or I'm going to live without it.
[00:43:32] Um, your core value, maybe
[00:43:33] Robert Glazer: you don't bother others, right? Or something like that. Right? It could be, it.
[00:43:37] Jason Rosoff: could be. Um, uh, and I, I, I think that, um. Going back to what Kim was saying earlier, it is like when you live in alignment with your core values, like paying the cost of honoring them, it doesn't feel nearly as bad as paying a cost for having one of your values violated.
[00:43:59] And I think that the power of the framework that you're offering is like giving people the opportunity. To choose, like, and that, that, that I think is the, like the, the thing that I find people struggle with the most, right? Is like, if you're bouncing from moment to moment, you don't have some, and, and you feel like things are out of alignment, it's very pain.
[00:44:19] It feels like you, there's this huge lot feeling of like a loss of agency. That a lot of people describe. If you don't know what you're sort of trying to get to, I think it can be really hard. So, I can see how all these pieces line up, how the TED Talk leads to the core values, leads to the framework.
[00:44:36] Robert Glazer: Look, I'm really trying to get this message to sort of 20-year-olds because what I'm seeing out in the world is tons of tribalism and things that don't make sense.
[00:44:48] We love all people except those people, and we hate those people. And you're like, and, and, and when you have value and we're self righteous.
[00:44:55] Kim Scott: in our hatred.
[00:44:56] Robert Glazer: Yes. When you have consistent values, you can withstand this wind in tribalism and be a little more anchored and be like, no, no. I believe this. No matter if the purple person's telling me it, or the green person or what, like, I, I'm consistent.
[00:45:11] But with the social media with like needing to win the day and people being so afraid about losing the day, I think they are giving up something bigger. Right? Yeah. I, I think we are. Falling deeply into tribalism in almost everything these days and that that if you can get grounded in your values, you can kind of withstand those winds a little bit.
[00:45:32] Jason Rosoff: and it feels crunchy.
[00:45:33] I think that's the point I was really trying to make is that I think people know that it's bad. Because it feels bad. Yeah. Like it might feel good. Like there's moments that feel good and then there's moments that feel really bad about it. Like when I talk to people who I think are quite that far down the path of tribalistic, ways of looking at the world, it's not like they're like, oh, it feels great.
[00:45:52] I'm so happy here. Yeah. Like they're, it feels terrible. I don't feel good about the things that I'm doing or the things that I'm saying Get out.
[00:45:59] Robert Glazer: Yeah.
[00:46:00] Jason Rosoff: But there isn't a way out, and so I like this as a framework. You. You talked about your kid who's training for the 10 K. You're talking about 20-year-olds needing some guidance.
[00:46:10] I wonder if there's some relationship between your life stage and why you feel like this is so important. Right. Right. Now, I know there's much more, but you mention you in passing at the very beginning. You mentioned that your daughter read the book and gave you feedback on it. How are you feeling about this as a like.
[00:46:30] A thing that you're sharing not just with other people, but even with your daughter and your family?
[00:46:35] Robert Glazer: Yeah, no, I think those are very logical points. It's getting particular interest, I would say in pockets of kind of twenties and then 40, 50, mid-career. I've sold my business. I need to think about what's next.
[00:46:48] So the story of my daughter's interesting, like, and again, I try to show up as a parent now. Aligned to those values and not worry about the things that aren't. So, it's pretty funny. She said to me like, hey, I'm running like a 10 K for the first time ever again. I like the better way. And, and at school, and we, we couldn't, our kids' parent’s weekends conflicted this year.
[00:47:08] So I was like, oh, well I'll just come on a plane. I'll come down, we'll cheer you on. And actually, you know what, like I'll run, I'll, I'll run it with you. And so, some people would be like. Why are you doing that? But actually, if I look down on my list, find a better way and share it. Health and vitality.
[00:47:20] She's doing this herself. Self-reliance. She's working like, I was like, oh, it checks all my things. That's why she might ask me to do something else. That's, and I, that's actually easier. And I would be like, eh, I don't really want to do that. But like for me, that's how I show up best as a parent. One of the things my do, my wife and I, we have really pushed like that.
[00:47:38] Our kids be independent. They all went to overnight camp. They all had to have jobs, you know, and I enjoy when I. Watch them doing those things. So yeah, so I'm jumping on a plane and for 24 hours and run a 10 K with her and then come home and like, I'm psyched about that. And some other people would be like, that sounds like a huge inconvenience, but for me it's like, again, when you're doing the value stuff, it, you don't, it's it that that fun comes obvious.
[00:48:02] No big deal. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:48:04] Kim Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And you don't have to second guess yourself. You're like, I'm doing this 'cause this is who I am. Exactly. That's a good reason to do it.
[00:48:11] Robert Glazer: And when she called me this morning late asking me to read a paper that you should have given me yesterday, I am like confidently, like, no, like you, you know, you know I was around all day yesterday and I could have looked at it for you.
[00:48:23] Kim Scott: Right, right. I love it. I love it. Well, hopefully she'll get you that paper earlier next time.
[00:48:28] Robert Glazer: she knows the deal. Yeah. Uh, I added things early in the morning, not at 10 o'clock at night. Yeah. I've been consistent about that.
[00:48:34] Kim Scott: That's good. That's good. Fantastic. Um, well listen, thank you so much. I know this is going to help so many people.
[00:48:41] Robert, your book, I know that writing is a labor of love and especially talking about values in a way that that doesn't feel too pedantic is.
[00:48:53] Robert Glazer: Yeah.
[00:48:54] Kim Scott: Really hard. And I think you pulled it off in this book, so
[00:48:57] Robert Glazer: Well, thank you.
[00:48:57] Kim Scott: Congratulations to you.
[00:48:59] Robert Glazer: Appreciate it. And uh, yeah, the book is, uh, out and we're, I always talk about, like this course that I mentioned, the course I've been selling for years, like if you buy it through launch week @compasswithin.com, we have a little form, you get the course for free.
So my goal for the next five years is just to help a million. People figure this out. So, I want people to do the work, and if I could sell a book for free, I would, it doesn't work that well. Uh, yeah. So
[00:49:24] Kim Scott: it does, it does not.
[00:49:25] Robert Glazer: But, uh, yeah, if you want to do that work or you want to answer those six questions, just get started and see if it helps you.
[00:49:32] Kim Scott: We'll drop links to all that in the show notes so that folks know where to find the six questions, know where to buy the book, and know how to get access to your course, which I know folks will benefit from. Um, so thank you so much. Uh, for folks listening, you can, if you want to join the Radical Candor community, we can talk about Robert's book and we can talk about values or anything else you want to talk about. Go to radical candor.com/community.
[00:50:01] Jason Rosoff: And if you want to find show notes for this episode of the show, head over to radical candor.com/podcast. Uh, if you're a visual person, you can actually watch this podcast on both YouTube and Spotify. Uh, praise in Public and criticize and private. If you like what you see, please rate and review us.
[00:50:20] If you're not a subscriber, please subscribe to the podcast wherever you happen to be listening. And if you have feedback for us, we'd love to hear it. So please do email us at. podcast@radicalcandor.com.
[00:50:34] Kim Scott: And if you have a management dilemma, you can send it to podcast@radicalcandor.com and we will explore it.
[00:50:41] Jason Rosoff: on a future episode.
[00:50:42] Kim Scott: Thanks everyone.
[00:50:43] Jason Rosoff: Take care.
[00:50:44] Amy Sandler: The Radical Candor Podcast is based on the book, radical Candor via Kick-Ass Boss, without Losing Your Humanity by Kim Scott. Episodes are written and produced by Brandi Neal, with script editing by me, Amy Sandler. The show features Radical Candor co-founders Kim Scott and Jason Roff, and is hosted by me still, Amy Sandler.
[00:51:05] Nick Carissimi is our audio engineer. The Radical Candor, podcasting music was composed by Cliff Goldmacher. Follow us on LinkedIn, Radical Candor, the Company, and visit us@radicalcandor.com.
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Improvising Radical Candor, a partnership between Radical Candor and Second City Works, introduces The Feedback Loop (think Groundhog Day meets The Office), a 5-episode workplace comedy series starring David Alan Grier that brings to life Radical Candor’s simple framework for navigating candid conversations.
You’ll get an hour of hilarious content about a team whose feedback fails are costing them business; improv-inspired exercises to teach everyone the skills they need to work better together, and after-episode action plans you can put into practice immediately.
We’re offering Radical Candor podcast listeners 10% off the self-paced e-course. Follow this link and enter the promo code FEEDBACK at checkout.
We’re excited to announce that Radical Candor is now available as an hour-long videobook that you can stream at LIT Videobooks. Get yours to stream now >>
The Radical Candor Podcast is based on the book Radical Candor: Be A Kickass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity by Kim Scott.
Episodes are written and produced by Brandi Neal with script editing by Amy Sandler. The show features Radical Candor co-founders Kim Scott and Jason Rosoff and is hosted by Amy Sandler. Nick Carissimi is our audio engineer.
The Radical Candor Podcast theme music was composed by Cliff Goldmacher. Order his book: The Reason For The Rhymes: Mastering the Seven Essential Skills of Innovation by Learning to Write Songs.
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